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Guest 'eavensabove

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On ‎10‎/‎02‎/‎2017 at 0:07 PM, Eddie said:

This is the problem with europe being overrun with bogus asylum seekers and economic migrants. People have had enough of being taken for mugs, when a genuine plight such as these kids comes along, hearts have been hardened. We should help these cunts, but at the same time deport 3000 bogus cunts.

No we should shoot the little cunts!!!

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23 hours ago, Decimus said:

Actually, I would suggest that the reason that the NHS is in a critical state is due to the fact that 8.5 million British citizens are only in part time work, and a further 10.5 million are either unemployed and seeking work, or unemployed and not seeking work. This data is all there and available from the Office of National Statistics. I'd suggest to you that this large section of the population who are accessing the NHS, but not contributing to it adequately, are the largest drain on its resources, and not your bogeyman immigrant.

Unless you have some secret statistics up your sleeve that shows that there are nearly twenty million secret immigrants in this country accessing the NHS, and that every single one of them contribute only minimal N.I. payments to its upkeep, then you are talking absolute rubbish. The number of immigrants who do not contribute or who only do so minimally, is dwarfed by our own feckless "native" population. And no, I don't think that they should be cared for because they're "ours". Fuck 'em.

So how's this for left wing? If you can't afford to pay for treatment then you shouldn't get it, I don't care if you are white British, or black as the ace of spades and have just stepped off the plane from Africa. The NHS is broken, probably beyond repair, and I'm sick of contributing to a system that has been milked dry by scum who do not put anything into it and are then kept alive to drain it even further into their dotage. 

We need a new system, with private insurance and higher contributions. Anyone who can't afford it will then hopefully stop moaning that it's because of immigrants, and realise that it's actually because of their own feckless attitude to life. You get what you pay in.

 

If it's one thing the British do well, it's the NHS. As a model for a modern, Western society, I think it's brilliant, and while it is obviously suffering, I don't believe it's 'broken' and 'probably beyond repair'. Ask 100 people if they'd be willing to contribute more taxes for a better NHS and I'm pretty sure 90 would say yes. I know I would. How's that for right-wing?

Now, you can throw statistics at me until you're blue in the face, Decs. While I agree millions of unemployed (and those in part-time work) who aren't paying their way are putting a huge strain on the NHS, you must surely acknowledge the sheer numbers of people flooding into the UK is exacerbating the situation. For this reason, the quality of admission and service can no longer be sustained. (Of course, another factor is because of poor planning and distribution of funding, such as the inequality of wages among NHS staff.)

The fact of the matter in its simplest form is there are too many people for the service to cope with – and this includes the approximate 1.5% of the UK demographic that continues to grow annually because of unprecedented immigration, much of it illegal. Whether you like it or not, and this is not meant to stir unwarranted accusations of racism, continued migration to the UK is contributing to the demise of this country’s public services, and the current state of the NHS is a gilt-edged example.

I do however believe migrant workers most certainly benefit our public health services, though I also think we are poaching too many qualified doctors and nurses from Third-World countries who can ill-afford to lose their best people. Taking on too many migrant workers is to deprive developing countries of their most qualified staff, and to not provide much-needed jobs for British people.

Privatising the NHS would be an absolute tragedy, meaning those without money would suffer terribly. It would be taking a huge step backwards to the Victorian era. For me, the solution is higher contributions, less immigration. And yes – we should help our own first, especially those who are elderly and have contributed to our system all of their working lives. They should be given priority. In your own words, 'You get out what you pay in'.

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The "immigrants are overloading the NHS" is an argument perpetuated by the likes of the EDL and news media including the Daily Express who seem to dish out a daily diet of immigrant horror stories to support the right wing op-eds concerning the NHS and the housing shortage. The left/lib oft-used retort is to cite racist attitudes and anti-capitalist rhetoric. The debate is not help by a lack of data available to support either side. Even the independent health think tank, The King's Fund, acknowledges there are no figures regarding health expenditure on immigrants though they do remark that 30% of NHS staff are immigrants and as a proportion of the UK population they are generally younger and healthier.

That the UK has an immigration issue is not in dispute, how that is managed in terms of who should come in to the UK is. That the NHS is overstretched and that there is a housing shortage is not in dispute. Both these issues have been predicted for the last three decades due to an aging population living longer with regards to the NHS and the breakdown of the nuclear family unit and again people living longer in their properties which has exacerbated housing demand. The issue with the NHS is that hospitals are spending more and more resources on looking after an elderly population who are best served by social care. For social care to effectively operate it needs a huge amount of money to make good the cut backs, then a whole much more for future needs which will increase further. Again, this has been predicted for decades but successive governments have been fearful that long term gain means short term pain and the resultant loss of a general election. No government has been prepared to grasp the nettle and fund a holistic solution. Interestingly, two weeks ago Mrs May dropped a gentle hint that Foreign Development Aid should be looked at. In other words the aid, which is set at 0.7% of GDP and equates to 21 billion pounds should be diverted which is more than enough to fund expected social care costs and would leave the NHS to run smoothly. The response to Mrs May's hint was muted to say the least which is interesting 'cos to reduce international aid would require legislation as the aid budget is guaranteed by statute. This would be another dilemma for Corbyn, he would be against the proposals but his back benchers, mindful that their constituents are full-on "charity begins at home" types might think otherwise. Interesting times.

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1 hour ago, Mrs Roops said:

The "immigrants are overloading the NHS" is an argument perpetuated by the likes of the EDL and news media including the Daily Express who seem to dish out a daily diet of immigrant horror stories to support the right wing op-eds concerning the NHS and the housing shortage. The left/lib oft-used retort is to cite racist attitudes and anti-capitalist rhetoric. The debate is not help by a lack of data available to support either side. Even the independent health think tank, The King's Fund, acknowledges there are no figures regarding health expenditure on immigrants though they do remark that 30% of NHS staff are immigrants and as a proportion of the UK population they are generally younger and healthier.

That the UK has an immigration issue is not in dispute, how that is managed in terms of who should come in to the UK is. That the NHS is overstretched and that there is a housing shortage is not in dispute. Both these issues have been predicted for the last three decades due to an aging population living longer with regards to the NHS and the breakdown of the nuclear family unit and again people living longer in their properties which has exacerbated housing demand. The issue with the NHS is that hospitals are spending more and more resources on looking after an elderly population who are best served by social care. For social care to effectively operate it needs a huge amount of money to make good the cut backs, then a whole much more for future needs which will increase further. Again, this has been predicted for decades but successive governments have been fearful that long term gain means short term pain and the resultant loss of a general election. No government has been prepared to grasp the nettle and fund a holistic solution. Interestingly, two weeks ago Mrs May dropped a gentle hint that Foreign Development Aid should be looked at. In other words the aid, which is set at 0.7% of GDP and equates to 21 billion pounds should be diverted which is more than enough to fund expected social care costs and would leave the NHS to run smoothly. The response to Mrs May's hint was muted to say the least which is interesting 'cos to reduce international aid would require legislation as the aid budget is guaranteed by statute. This would be another dilemma for Corbyn, he would be against the proposals but his back benchers, mindful that their constituents are full-on "charity begins at home" types might think otherwise. Interesting times.

While I welcome your response to debate, I suspect these words aren't entirely your own. It looks to me as though you've pulled them from somewhere and added a few of your own, to give the impression of an authentic prose.

My initial enthusiasm was quickly overcome by the uncontrollable desire to have a wank.

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Guest 'eavensabove
6 minutes ago, Wolfie said:

While I welcome your response to debate, I suspect these words aren't entirely your own. It looks to me as though you've pulled them from somewhere and added a few of your own, to give the impression of an authentic prose.

My initial enthusiasm was quickly overcome by the uncontrollable desire to have a wank.

Quite observant Inspector Morse.

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Guest Quincy Cockfingers
22 hours ago, Decimus said:

Actually, I would suggest that the reason that the NHS is in a critical state is due to the fact that 8.5 million British citizens are only in part time work, and a further 10.5 million are either unemployed and seeking work, or unemployed and not seeking work. This data is all there and available from the Office of National Statistics. I'd suggest to you that this large section of the population who are accessing the NHS, but not contributing to it adequately, are the largest drain on its resources, and not your bogeyman immigrant.

Unless you have some secret statistics up your sleeve that shows that there are nearly twenty million secret immigrants in this country accessing the NHS, and that every single one of them contribute only minimal N.I. payments to its upkeep, then you are talking absolute rubbish. The number of immigrants who do not contribute or who only do so minimally, is dwarfed by our own feckless "native" population. And no, I don't think that they should be cared for because they're "ours". Fuck 'em.

So how's this for left wing? If you can't afford to pay for treatment then you shouldn't get it, I don't care if you are white British, or black as the ace of spades and have just stepped off the plane from Africa. The NHS is broken, probably beyond repair, and I'm sick of contributing to a system that has been milked dry by scum who do not put anything into it and are then kept alive to drain it even further into their dotage. 

We need a new system, with private insurance and higher contributions. Anyone who can't afford it will then hopefully stop moaning that it's because of immigrants, and realise that it's actually because of their own feckless attitude to life. You get what you pay in.

 

Dan. Fuck off.

lol

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25 minutes ago, Wolfie said:

While I welcome your response to debate, I suspect these words aren't entirely your own. It looks to me as though you've pulled them from somewhere and added a few of your own, to give the impression of an authentic prose.

My initial enthusiasm was quickly overcome by the uncontrollable desire to have a wank.

You live life in the edge, Wolfie. An admirable quality in my book.

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1 hour ago, Mrs Roops said:

The "immigrants are overloading the NHS" is an argument perpetuated by the likes of the EDL and news media including the Daily Express who seem to dish out a daily diet of immigrant horror stories to support the right wing op-eds concerning the NHS and the housing shortage. The left/lib oft-used retort is to cite racist attitudes and anti-capitalist rhetoric. The debate is not help by a lack of data available to support either side. Even the independent health think tank, The King's Fund, acknowledges there are no figures regarding health expenditure on immigrants though they do remark that 30% of NHS staff are immigrants and as a proportion of the UK population they are generally younger and healthier.

That the UK has an immigration issue is not in dispute, how that is managed in terms of who should come in to the UK is. That the NHS is overstretched and that there is a housing shortage is not in dispute. Both these issues have been predicted for the last three decades due to an aging population living longer with regards to the NHS and the breakdown of the nuclear family unit and again people living longer in their properties which has exacerbated housing demand. The issue with the NHS is that hospitals are spending more and more resources on looking after an elderly population who are best served by social care. For social care to effectively operate it needs a huge amount of money to make good the cut backs, then a whole much more for future needs which will increase further. Again, this has been predicted for decades but successive governments have been fearful that long term gain means short term pain and the resultant loss of a general election. No government has been prepared to grasp the nettle and fund a holistic solution. Interestingly, two weeks ago Mrs May dropped a gentle hint that Foreign Development Aid should be looked at. In other words the aid, which is set at 0.7% of GDP and equates to 21 billion pounds should be diverted which is more than enough to fund expected social care costs and would leave the NHS to run smoothly. The response to Mrs May's hint was muted to say the least which is interesting 'cos to reduce international aid would require legislation as the aid budget is guaranteed by statute. This would be another dilemma for Corbyn, he would be against the proposals but his back benchers, mindful that their constituents are full-on "charity begins at home" types might think otherwise. Interesting times.

What you have to remember that take away the immigrants working in the NHS and the NHS would collapse*

*If you mentioned this in your post, I apologise for repetition. I didn't read all the post because it's to long for my attention span 

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45 minutes ago, camberwell gypsy said:

What you have to remember that take away the immigrants working in the NHS and the NHS would collapse*

*If you mentioned this in your post, I apologise for repetition. I didn't read all the post because it's to long for my attention span 

'...the NHS would collapse.'

I believe collapse and prolapse are similar manoeuvres, so perhaps Quincy is best placed to answer.

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2 hours ago, Wolfie said:

While I welcome your response to debate, I suspect these words aren't entirely your own. It looks to me as though you've pulled them from somewhere and added a few of your own, to the impression of an authentic prose.

My initial enthusiasm was quickly overcome by the uncontrollable desire to have a wank.

Indeed, continuing to post easy-to-make and unsubstantiated suspicions is all the more surprising given you made yourself look that >< small when you last failed to front it out. Thanks for the welcome BTW.

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21 minutes ago, Mrs Roops said:

Indeed, continuing to post easy-to-make and unsubstantiated suspicions is all the more surprising given you made yourself look that >< small when you last failed to front it out. Thanks for the welcome BTW.

There's no need to thank me, Mrs Roops; I should be thanking you for allowing yourself to be exposed as a plagiaristic twit.

Do you deny you didn't copy & paste part, if not all, of your spellbinding statistics lecture above?

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6 hours ago, Wolfie said:

If it's one thing the British do well, it's the NHS. As a model for a modern, Western society, I think it's brilliant, and while it is obviously suffering, I don't believe it's 'broken' and 'probably beyond repair'. Ask 100 people if they'd be willing to contribute more taxes for a better NHS and I'm pretty sure 90 would say yes. I know I would. How's that for right-wing?

Now, you can throw statistics at me until you're blue in the face, Decs. While I agree millions of unemployed (and those in part-time work) who aren't paying their way are putting a huge strain on the NHS, you must surely acknowledge the sheer numbers of people flooding into the UK is exacerbating the situation. For this reason, the quality of admission and service can no longer be sustained. (Of course, another factor is because of poor planning and distribution of funding, such as the inequality of wages among NHS staff.)

The fact of the matter in its simplest form is there are too many people for the service to cope with – and this includes the approximate 1.5% of the UK demographic that continues to grow annually because of unprecedented immigration, much of it illegal. Whether you like it or not, and this is not meant to stir unwarranted accusations of racism, continued migration to the UK is contributing to the demise of this country’s public services, and the current state of the NHS is a gilt-edged example.

I do however believe migrant workers most certainly benefit our public health services, though I also think we are poaching too many qualified doctors and nurses from Third-World countries who can ill-afford to lose their best people. Taking on too many migrant workers is to deprive developing countries of their most qualified staff, and to not provide much-needed jobs for British people.

Privatising the NHS would be an absolute tragedy, meaning those without money would suffer terribly. It would be taking a huge step backwards to the Victorian era. For me, the solution is higher contributions, less immigration. And yes – we should help our own first, especially those who are elderly and have contributed to our system all of their working lives. They should be given priority. In your own words, 'You get out what you pay in'.

The reason why A&E departments are so bad is the fact that many people do not need to be there. This isn't a new phenomenon. When I did my stint as an A&E nurse you would not believe the reasons people went there for. Some would be there for hours just because they had a cold or a headache. Many could be sorted if they went to a pharmacist. Ask any GP and they will tell you that about 70-80% of what they deal with is crap. It won't get better 

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19 minutes ago, Wolfie said:

What a fascinating brain you have, Mrs Roops: able to recall and pinpoint such accurate data off the top of your head with consummate ease. Your skill is matched only by your modesty. 

...and your lack of skill is inversely matched by your petulant dishonesty - next time you change the context of the question after its answered will result in your teeth being metaphorically kicked in. 

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1 hour ago, camberwell gypsy said:

The reason why A&E departments are so bad is the fact that many people do not need to be there. This isn't a new phenomenon. When I did my stint as an A&E nurse you would not believe the reasons people went there for. Some would be there for hours just because they had a cold or a headache. Many could be sorted if they went to a pharmacist. Ask any GP and they will tell you that about 70-80% of what they deal with is crap. It won't get better 

You worked there, so you'd know. Did a post-gay club Quincy ever turn up in A&E with a vacuum cleaner hose pipe shoved up his arse?

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1 hour ago, Mrs Roops said:

...and your lack of skill is inversely matched by your petulant dishonesty - next time you change the context of the question after its answered will result in your teeth being metaphorically kicked in. 

Sadly, if ever we meet, I suspect we'd argue terribly. That in itself would be a shame, because I'm quite sure you'd want to shag me after a few spritzers.

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Guest Quincy Cockfingers
On 12/02/2017 at 7:10 PM, Stubby Pecker said:

I wish your kraut dr was Josef Mengele

 

There once was a Boy from Brazil

Those kikes he loved to kill

Ring a ring of roses

Gas up dem big noses

And pile em all in a hill.

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47 minutes ago, Wolfie said:

Sadly, if ever we meet, I suspect we'd argue terribly. That in itself would be a shame, because I'm quite sure you'd want to shag me after a few spritzers.

I doubt it Wolfers,you'd be too lower class.

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