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Death March 2021


Penny Farthing

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On 22/01/2021 at 21:33, Goober said:

 

China didn't fuck up the world with a pandemic

 

 

On 23/01/2021 at 11:48, Goober said:

I'll admit that I had similar thoughts about the lab in Wuhan initially and I doubt anyone could discount out of hand the possibility that the virus originated there. However, there is no evidence of this virus having been engineered and definitely none that it was deliberately released. Such actions leave evidence which has not been found. What is possible is that they were studying a naturally occurring virus and poor safety standards let the cat (bat?) out of the bag. That could simply be the actions of a foolhardy individual though. 

From what is known at the moment, it's far, far more likely that the virus originated naturally in the wet market. To suggest otherwise based on the currently available evidence is just speculation and straying into the realms of conspiracy theory. 

Are their animal welfare standards appalling? Absolutely. Could they do more to stop such practices? Probably and I've little doubt they'll try harder in future. No one wants this again. However, such practices are cultural through much of oriental Asia and even a government as controlling as China's creates problems for itself when they start interfering with cultural practices that have continued for centuries. 

China has a massive population problem, with a large proportion living in comparative poverty. They've tried to employ some draconian practices to control their population with limited success. Huge, densely populated cities with, what to us are backward cultural practices and far less than optimal sanitary conditions are melting pots for diseases. In such scenarios it's inevitable that well adapted and highly infectious new viruses crop up from time to time. It's as certain as the sun rising each day. Epidemics happen frequently but often they get little or no attention because most don't affect humans. Think Ash die back or viral haemorrhagic disease in rabbits as examples. Even in human populations they happen frequently, but that's only apparent if thinking beyond our own experience or the time scale of single human lives. Eventually host populations evolve and live with these diseases. 

This virus doesn't actually mutate particularly quickly compared to the majority. However, all viruses constantly mutate. Most mutations are neutral, some lessen their impact whilst some increase virulence and or lethality. Mutation is entirely random, directionless and happening frequently. 

Back to the original point of China having inflicted this on the world. This strikes me as laziness and human nature looking for someone to blame. The reality is, sometimes shit just happens. The fact that it happened in China when coupled with their cultural differences, which make them alien to us, means it's easy, and convenient, to point the finger. It could have just as easily started in Thailand or Vietnam or anywhere else.

Could they have been more transparent and reacted quicker? Probably, but ultimately its likely that would have made little difference. 20/20 hindsight is great, but when diseases first appear there's just no information on which to base the appropriate level of response. Should cities or countries of millions or billions of people be locked down immediately every time someone gets a slightly unusual sniffle? 

Did it originate from the lab? It's not impossible, but they are far, far from being the only country in the world that plays with fire in this way. 

Ultimately, its just bad luck and blaming China for the current ills of the world is just scapegoating based on people's own, entirely natural, prejudice. 

My apologies for the long response, Dr Cunt/Goober. I've spent the past few days dealing with angry teenagers, which ironically puts me in an ideal position to address your recent hissy fit in defence of China.

It doesn't matter whether the virus is an escapee from a Wuhan bioweapons military lab or whether it originated from a disgusting, archetypal Chinese live animal market: the result has been precisely the same. One year on and the fact is most shops remain shut, businesses closed, children kept home and elderly people locked down and scared out of their fucking wits.

The virus, like all SARS & COVID strains historically, undoubtedly originated from China. The vast majority of the international scientific community agrees on this. Unlike you, I do not have a problem giving the right name to the Wuhan virus causing a worldwide pandemic. China needs to take responsibility to assist other nations in finding a solution to the ongoing problem, which it still refuses to do. Not only has the CCP (Chinese Communist Party) pointed the blame-finger at leading Western nations, it hasn't allowed access to international scientists who believe studying the source of the disease could lead to further investment and vaccine development. What if China had closed its borders immediately once it realised the threat roughly this time last year? I am sure – much like everyone else – the huge global loss of life and economic upheaval could have been prevented. Studies from the same Oxford Vaccine Group developing immunisations concluded that China may have prevented 95% of worldwide coronavirus infections if measures to contain the outbreak had begun just three weeks earlier. Despite this, the CCP decided to permit international air travel as usual.

Similarly to Russia, perhaps even more so in the past decade, the CCP is known for violence, deception and corruption – each the hallmark of a communist dictatorship with complete control over its demographic. China has caused the estimated deaths of 80 million of its own people throughout its past 70 years of tyranny, more recently sending fake masks and substandard ventilators to the rest of the world (Italy a good example), yet another fitting testament to the CCP's total disregard for human life. Just recently, huge artificial islands have been discovered in sea reefs which China has claimed as its territory, all of which are being transformed into significant military facilities including runways used for the deployment of Chinese fighter jets. I am not claiming the US has the right to flex its muscles and Eastern powers do not, but it does beg the question: what are the slimy little shitcunts preparing for?

Laws which govern the meat production industry in China are very different to that of the West, such as the UK, Canada, NZ and Australia. The slaughter, processing and consumption of animals is not regulated and is currently a deplorable free-for-all, with only the brutal economics governing the way with which live animals at wet markets are treated. It doesn't take much brainpower to realise these cruel shitholes are rife for the spread of disease and infection. A country which brutalises animals like few others can also be measured by how its regards human life. As a write these words, China houses more political prisoners than any other nation on Earth with approximately 1.7m of its own people incarcerated, allied to around 1.5 million Uighur Muslims imprisoned among 'Xinjiang re-education camps', in which people are worked to death to make products most thick Brits and Yanks buy nonchalantly in supermarkets and cheap fashion wankholes such as Primark.

I make no effort to hide my disdain for the sadistic, slant-eyed midgets, however, 'blame' is not necessarily used for scapegoating, as you put it. If someone does something which negatively and severely affects the lives of hundreds of millions of people, then they deserve to be punished. That, in my mind, is vindicating and fulfilling the same strong sense of justice everyone worldwide is feeling at the moment.  

 

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46 minutes ago, Wolfie said:

 

My apologies for the long response, Dr Cunt/Goober. I've spent the past few days dealing with angry teenagers, which ironically puts me in an ideal position to address your recent hissy fit in defence of China.

It doesn't matter whether the virus is an escapee from a Wuhan bioweapons military lab or whether it originated from a disgusting, archetypal Chinese live animal market: the result has been precisely the same. One year on and the fact is most shops remain shut, businesses closed, children kept home and elderly people locked down and scared out of their fucking wits.

The virus, like all SARS & COVID strains historically, undoubtedly originated from China. The vast majority of the international scientific community agrees on this. Unlike you, I do not have a problem giving the right name to the Wuhan virus causing a worldwide pandemic. China needs to take responsibility to assist other nations in finding a solution to the ongoing problem, which it still refuses to do. Not only has the CCP (Chinese Communist Party) pointed the blame-finger at leading Western nations, it hasn't allowed access to international scientists who believe studying the source of the disease could lead to further investment and vaccine development. What if China had closed its borders immediately once it realised the threat roughly this time last year? I am sure – much like everyone else – the huge global loss of life and economic upheaval could have been prevented. Studies from the same Oxford Vaccine Group developing immunisations concluded that China may have prevented 95% of worldwide coronavirus infections if measures to contain the outbreak had begun just three weeks earlier. Despite this, the CCP decided to permit international air travel as usual.

Similarly to Russia, perhaps even more so in the past decade, the CCP is known for violence, deception and corruption – each the hallmark of a communist dictatorship with complete control over its demographic. China has caused the estimated deaths of 80 million of its own people throughout its past 70 years of tyranny, more recently sending fake masks and substandard ventilators to the rest of the world (Italy a good example), yet another fitting testament to the CCP's total disregard for human life. Just recently, huge artificial islands have been discovered in sea reefs which China has claimed as its territory, all of which are being transformed into significant military facilities including runways used for the deployment of Chinese fighter jets. I am not claiming the US has the right to flex its muscles and Eastern powers do not, but it does beg the question: what are the slimy little shitcunts preparing for?

Laws which govern the meat production industry in China are very different to that of the West, such as the UK, Canada, NZ and Australia. The slaughter, processing and consumption of animals is not regulated and is currently a deplorable free-for-all, with only the brutal economics governing the way with which live animals at wet markets are treated. It doesn't take much brainpower to realise these cruel shitholes are rife for the spread of disease and infection. A country which brutalises animals like few others can also be measured by how its regards human life. As a write these words, China houses more political prisoners than any other nation on Earth with approximately 1.7m of its own people incarcerated, allied to around 1.5 million Uighur Muslims imprisoned among 'Xinjiang re-education camps', in which people are worked to death to make products most thick Brits and Yanks buy nonchalantly in supermarkets and cheap fashion wankholes such as Primark.

I make no effort to hide my disdain for the sadistic, slant-eyed midgets, however, 'blame' is not necessarily used for scapegoating, as you put it. If someone does something which negatively and severely affects the lives of hundreds of millions of people, then they deserve to be punished. That, in my mind, is vindicating and fulfilling the same strong sense of justice everyone worldwide is feeling at the moment.  

 

You start with a pretence or show of objectivity then admit at the end you are fatally biased. Very strange mixture. Where a virus originates is immaterial. Myxomatosis started in Australia. Throughout history many civilisations were either completely destroyed or just dropped out of history because of epidemics ravaging the population. In ancient times cities died because of viruses. The West has got used to the idea of viral outbreaks being "over there" whether it be SARS in the Far East or Ebola in Africa. Even rabies is regarded as a "foreign" disease because this attitude is even more pronounced on an island. 

But in an interdependent world there is no 'them' or 'us' and the virus actually thrives in a country that prefers the blame game rather than looking to strengthen its own systems and resiliance to inevitable natural outbreaks. 

The total deaths proportionate to the size of population will determine whether a particular society has been weak or strong in the face of this threat. By that measure the UK is already showing a very distinct tendency to be the worst performing country in the world. No amount of massaging the statistics can disguise that. 

Neither can no amount of pointing the finger. You did it with regard to Eurooe and brexit and fooled people. But when houses, families, friends have lost loved ones you can't get away with scapegoating anymore. 

You are a racist cunt and you spout your ideas on here with an air of authority which they do not deserve you despicable sub human. 

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7 minutes ago, ChildeHarold said:

You start with a pretence or show of objectivity then admit at the end you are fatally biased. Very strange mixture. Where a virus originates is immaterial. Myxomatosis started in Australia. Throughout history many civilisations were either completely destroyed or just dropped out of history because of epidemics ravaging the population. In ancient times cities died because of viruses. The West has got used to the idea of viral outbreaks being "over there" whether it be SARS in the Far East or Ebola in Africa. Even rabies is regarded as a "foreign" disease because this attitude is even more pronounced on an island. 

But in an interdependent world there is no 'them' or 'us' and the virus actually thrives in a country that prefers the blame game rather than looking to strengthen its own systems and resiliance to inevitable natural outbreaks. 

The total deaths proportionate to the size of population will determine whether a particular society has been weak or strong in the face of this threat. By that measure the UK is already showing a very distinct tendency to be the worst performing country in the world. No amount of massaging the statistics can disguise that. 

Neither can no amount of pointing the finger. You did it with regard to Eurooe and brexit and fooled people. But when houses, families, friends have lost loved ones you can't get away with scapegoating anymore. 

You are a racist cunt and you spout your ideas on here with an air of authority which they do not deserve you despicable sub human. 

You make a good argument but why the fuck do have to follow it up with abuse? You're always doing it.

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2 hours ago, Wolfie said:

One year on and the fact is most shops remain shut, businesses closed, children kept home and elderly people locked down and scared out of their fucking wits.

 If someone does something which negatively and severely affects the lives of hundreds of millions of people, then they deserve to be punished.

A good read my lupine friend, though I do have questions.

1. Most shops remain shut in the UK. Here, life is going on almost normally aside from airlines. That does say something about governance in this crisis, no? CH has a point, despite being a twat. Stopped clocks and all that. 

2. What punishment for China do you propose, bearing in mind they aren’t angry teenagers and have nuclear weapons at their disposal? You’re surely not of the Gavin Williamson school of first strike with the Royal Navy? I hope those boys can swim.

3. Other Communist dictatorships were felled from within by Western intelligence agencies stirring dissent around underperforming economies. China knows this, and economic growth continues at the expense of all things. There is no Chinese opposition, which is something of a problem, no?

4. Why are right-leaning columnists the world over suddenly taking up verbal arms in the name of Chinese human rights, when usually said human rights are “woke nonsense” or whatever? Might it be China is the latest convenient bogeyman for us all to get in a froth over?

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On 22/01/2021 at 20:09, Goober said:

China aside, you've surely got to admit that being soft on Putin as Trump was (allegedly due to the existence of kompromat) is not a particularly good idea. He's a dictator by any definition and given an inch he's always going to take a mile. His strong arm international diplomacy appeals domestically, but he gives not two fucks about what those outside Russia think, almost regardless of the consequences. 

Better to stand up to the fucker than to suck his cock, as Trump did. 

Russia didn't pose any threat to the USA. Russia is largely an impoverished shit hole, incapable of launching an effective deterrent, other than sending a few handy men with chemical cocktails.

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1 minute ago, Last Cunt Standing said:

A good read my lupine friend, though I do have questions.

1. Most shops remain shut in the UK. Here, life is going on almost normally aside from airlines. That does say something about governance in this crisis, no? CH has a point, despite being a twat. Stopped clocks and all that. 

2. What punishment for China do you propose, bearing in mind they aren’t angry teenagers and have nuclear weapons at their disposal? You’re surely not of the Gavin Williamson school of first strike with the Royal Navy? I hope those boys can swim.

3. Other Communist dictatorships were felled from within by Western intelligence agencies stirring dissent around underperforming economies. China knows this, and economic growth continues at the expense of all things. There is no Chinese opposition, which is something of a problem, no?

4. Why are right-leaning columnists the world over suddenly taking up verbal arms in the name of Chinese human rights, when usually said human rights are “woke nonsense” or whatever? Might it be China is the latest convenient bogeyman for us all to get in a froth over?

God debating points but you won't attract any sensible replies other than the scapegoating racism exhibited by certain people here. 

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1 hour ago, ChildeHarold said:

You start with a pretence or show of objectivity then admit at the end you are fatally biased. Very strange mixture. Where a virus originates is immaterial. Myxomatosis started in Australia. Throughout history many civilisations were either completely destroyed or just dropped out of history because of epidemics ravaging the population. In ancient times cities died because of viruses. The West has got used to the idea of viral outbreaks being "over there" whether it be SARS in the Far East or Ebola in Africa. Even rabies is regarded as a "foreign" disease because this attitude is even more pronounced on an island. 

But in an interdependent world there is no 'them' or 'us' and the virus actually thrives in a country that prefers the blame game rather than looking to strengthen its own systems and resiliance to inevitable natural outbreaks. 

The total deaths proportionate to the size of population will determine whether a particular society has been weak or strong in the face of this threat. By that measure the UK is already showing a very distinct tendency to be the worst performing country in the world. No amount of massaging the statistics can disguise that. 

Neither can no amount of pointing the finger. You did it with regard to Eurooe and brexit and fooled people. But when houses, families, friends have lost loved ones you can't get away with scapegoating anymore. 

You’ve surprised me, CH.

Blaming others is psychologically easier than blaming yourself. I think we can all accept that.

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