Let’s all go to the park

[Goober]

24 minutes ago, Dawn Chorus said:

I know a few places where pheasants are bred, reared and released by gamekeepers and others on an industrial scale but something that I have yet to find is pheasants actually breeding in the wild (I am sure that a few probably do) .. I am fairly certain that if this captive breeding ceased pheasants would quickly disappear. The tradisioan gamekeeping as we see it nowadays isn't actually traditional. On the old estates revenue was from rents from tenant farmers .. these farms were either gradually sold off to the tenant farmers from the late 1940s onwards or simply converted into shooting estates to mostly serve a new kind of punter who first appeared in the 1920s .. fairly well off cunts from the towns and cities who would drive down to the country in their new fangled cars to shoot anything that dared to over. To serve these a new kind of gamekeeper emerged who would shoot, trap or poison anything that he thought might kill the game birds or otherwise get in the way.

This time of year it's very easy to find pheasant and partridge (red legged, not too many Greys here compared to North Norfolk) nests in the hedgerows, if you know how. It just takes a very keen eye and lots and lots of practice. I found a pleasant nest this morning. 

Lowland gamekeeping practices are unrecognisable now from what they were a few generations ago, but this is driven by economics, not the arguments you've presented. Historically, tenant farmers would not have shooting rights (except for pests) these were retained by the landlords.

Formerly, gamekeeping practices depended on the very labour intensive killing of every predator in sight in order to enhance the wild population (much as still happens on the Holkham estate in North Norfolk where grey partridges still thrive), whereas now the practice is to introduce excess numbers and accept the losses. Ultimately the latter is much cheaper way of producing a 'harvestable surplus'. Neither approach is perfect though. 

 

[Penny Farthing]

3 minutes ago, Goober said:

I actually don't disagree with some of what you've written here, but there's a reason why the UK has 75% of the world's upland heather moorland. It's a rare and fragile habitat that, as you allude to, would vanish without intense management. Yes, the management practices are implemented largely to benefit the endemic Red Grouse, but the benefit to a huge array of species, particularly many waders, not to mention a good number of raptor species, is almost incalculable. I'd be amazed if the hypocrites at the RSPB [spit on the cunts] advocated for the abandonment of these moorland management practices en masse. If management for shooting were prohibited no one would step in to fill the void. 

Any human management plan will produce winners and losers and like most things in life it's about finding a delicate balance. The problem is, where is the incentive to manage these areas without the income that landowners derive from shooting? I don't see governments stepping in to fund their management. 

Who gives a fuck about jocks and northerners getting flooded occasionally.

A lot of that kind of upland moorland exists without human intervention or interference. a mostly human creation are the lowland heaths, which are species rich and diverse around 90% of these heaths have been lost mostly to building and industrial estates since the early 1900s. Another critical loss have been the lowland bogs and mosses .. some ruined by peat extraction, others lost by being drained and built on or in some cases tree planting. There is an area of old mossland of several hundred acrs just north of Crewe .. Coppenhall Moss, part drained and built on and with Warmingham Moss having had its heather removed in an attempt to convert it tino grazing (something that has failed but left it largely deviod of wildlife). The burning of the heather on the Lancashire and Westmoreland Mosses has resulted in the loss of the once common Silver-studded Blue butterfly from those mosses

[Goober]

3 minutes ago, Dawn Chorus said:

A lot of that kind of upland moorland exists without human intervention or interference. a mostly human creation are the lowland heaths, which are species rich and diverse around 90% of these heaths have been lost mostly to building and industrial estates since the early 1900s. Another critical loss have been the lowland bogs and mosses .. some ruined by peat extraction, others lost by being drained and built on or in some cases tree planting. There is an area of old mossland of several hundred acrs just north of Crewe .. Coppenhall Moss, part drained and built on and with Warmingham Moss having had its heather removed in an attempt to convert it tino grazing (something that has failed but left it largely deviod of wildlife). The burning of the heather on the Lancashire and Westmoreland Mosses has resulted in the loss of the once common Silver-studded Blue butterfly from those mosses

No so for upland heather moorland, and as you point out, the lowlands heaths are lost largely due to reasons unrelated to shooting. In fact, shooting is one of the few economic reasons for maintaining them. 

[Penny Farthing]

2 minutes ago, Goober said:

This time of year it's very easy to find pheasant and partridge (red legged, not too many Greys here compared to North Norfolk) nests in the hedgerows, if you know how. It just takes a very keen eye and lots and lots of practice. I found a pleasant nest this morning. 

Lowland gamekeeping practices are unrecognisable now from what they were a few generations ago, but this is driven by economics, not the arguments you've presented. Historically, tenant farmers would not have shooting rights (except for pests) these were retained by the landlords.

Formally, gamekeeping practices depended on the very labour intensive killing of every predator in sight in order to enhance the wild population (much as still happens on the Holkham estate in North Norfolk where grey partridges still thrive), whereas now the practice is to introduce excess numbers and accept the losses. Ultimately the latter is much cheaper way of producing a 'harvestable surplus'. Neither approach is perfect though. 

 

I know that the tenants did not have the shooting (or fox hunting rights) my mother's family were tenant farmers on such an estate. The economics that drove the change was inadequate rents from the the tenant farmers and the landowners either having to sell up or find alternative methods of making the land pay .. some simply took over the farms and farmed directly themselves other converted them to commercial shooting estates .. tis was especially the case in the uplands of Northern England and Scotland. Something else though also emerged mostly from the late 1960s onwards which was rich cunts from the city buying farmland and woodland and converting it to commercial shooting estates. Quite a lot of that in Devon, Shropshire and Cheshire and doubtless elsewhere.

[Stubby Pecker]

13 minutes ago, Goober said:

I actually don't disagree with some of what you've written here, but there's a reason why the UK has 75% of the world's upland heather moorland. It's a rare and fragile habitat that, as you allude to, would vanish without intense management. Yes, the management practices are implemented largely to benefit the endemic Red Grouse, but the benefit to a huge array of species, particularly many waders, not to mention a good number of raptor species, is almost incalculable. I'd be amazed if the hypocrites at the RSPB [spit on the cunts] advocated for the abandonment of these moorland management practices en masse. If management for shooting were prohibited no one would step in to fill the void. 

Any human management plan will produce winners and losers and like most things in life it's about finding a delicate balance. The problem is, where is the incentive to manage these areas without the income that landowners derive from shooting? I don't see governments stepping in to fund their management. 

Who gives a fuck about jocks and northerners getting flooded occasionally.

My argument is that most of these upland areas simply don't need to be managed. With sensible levels of proxy herbivores (wild pony's, cattle and deer) an ever evolving ecosystem would develop without the hand of man. Many of the waders and others you speak of exist in high and sustainable numbers on the continent in areas I suggest we could have here. However, our uplands are currently a sponge to soak up criminal levels of subsidies mainly for sheep farming, which when they go will hopefully see a much wilder outlook for our land. Just look at vast swathes of Wales, Exmoor, Dartmoor etc- there's virtually fuck all living there yet they are falsely celebrated by the small minded as being "wilderness". There's more wildlife in my fucking garden than most sheep and red deer scoured glens.   

[Penny Farthing]

3 minutes ago, Goober said:

No so for upland heather moorland, and as you point out, the lowlands heaths are lost largely due to reasons unrelated to shooting. In fact, shooting is one of the few economic reasons for maintaining them. 

If you visit the moorland between Macclesfield and Buxton you will find no human intervention and few trees on the moors. Few trees grow there at the best, Much of Dartmoor is the same. True that the sheep prevent some of the trees from growing but in the past wild populations of goats would have done the same job in those places

[Penny Farthing]

6 minutes ago, Stubby Pecker said:

My argument is that most of these upland areas simply don't need to be managed. With sensible levels of proxy herbivores (wild pony's, cattle and deer) an ever evolving ecosystem would develop without the hand of man. Many of the waders and others you speak of exist in high and sustainable numbers on the continent in areas I suggest we could have here. However, our uplands are currently a sponge to soak up criminal levels of subsidies mainly for sheep farming, which when they go will hopefully see a much wilder outlook for our land. Just look at vast swathes of Wales, Exmoor, Dartmoor etc- there's virtually fuck all living there yet they are falsely celebrated by the small minded as being "wilderness". There's more wildlife in my fucking garden than most sheep and red deer scoured glens.   

I am not sure about the subsidies for sheep .. I think a lot of the money is being soaked up by tax offsets for supposedly not using the land .. what has happened in some of these places is that cunts buy vast acrerages of land that has actually been little used other than for common grazing and being paid for leaving it exactly as it is and making in some cases several hundred £k per year for doing this. I think that there is one such "non-farmer" doing this near Okehampton on Dartmoor. There is presently also an area of Dartmoor due to be sold by auction which will actually be a nice little earner for the same reason.

[Stubby Pecker]

1 minute ago, Dawn Chorus said:

If you visit the moorland between Macclesfield and Buxton you will find no human intervention and few trees on the moors. Few trees grow there at the best, Much of Dartmoor is the same. True that the sheep prevent some of the trees from growing but in the past wild populations of goats would have done the same job in those places

Goats are not native to the UK, the same as sheep. They would have come in the Neolithic period with the first farmers. The best example I can think of here is the New Forest with a good balance of woodland, open areas and scrub, mostly maintained by grazing of cattle and ponies, versions of which existed here in pre farming days. This area has some of the highest biodiversity of insects, reptiles, birds and plants in the country and I'm convinced most of the UK would have looked very similar to this in the distant past. Indeed, before enclosure, the common grazing of animals would have produced the same with a level of life our great great great grandparents would have taken for granted, yet we have lost. 

In the areas you speak of, without humans and grazing, trees would dominate, as seen in areas in Europe at much higher latitudes. It's likely there is no seed stock to regenerate so the process will of course take 100s, if not 1000s of years, timescales us humans fail to comprehend.   

[Stubby Pecker]

2 minutes ago, Dawn Chorus said:

I am not sure about the subsidies for sheep .. I think a lot of the money is being soaked up by tax offsets for supposedly not using the land .. what has happened in some of these places is that cunts buy vast acrerages of land that has actually been little used other than for common grazing and being paid for leaving it exactly as it is and making in some cases several hundred £k per year for doing this. I think that there is one such "non-farmer" doing this near Okehampton on Dartmoor. There is presently also an area of Dartmoor due to be sold by auction which will actually be a nice little earner for the same reason.

In order to receive farming subsidies you don't actually need to produce anything at all. All you need to do is prove that the land is capable to do so i.e. remove all scrub periodically and stop nature doing what its been doing for countless millennia. On denuded land it only takes a very low density of sheep to maintain its largely lifeless state. As for subsidies for upland sheep farming, it simply couldn't exist without them as they would all make a massive loss. The whole thing is a scandal and Cameron's government almost doubled the pay out for grouse moors, not to help out his chums of course. 

 

 https://www.theguardian.com/environment/georgemonbiot/2013/may/22/britain-uplands-farming-subsidies  

[Penny Farthing]

35 minutes ago, Stubby Pecker said:

In order to receive farming subsidies you don't actually need to produce anything at all. All you need to do is prove that the land is capable to do so i.e. remove all scrub periodically and stop nature doing what its been doing for countless millennia. On denuded land it only takes a very low density of sheep to maintain its largely lifeless state. As for subsidies for upland sheep farming, it simply couldn't exist without them as they would all make a massive loss. The whole thing is a scandal and Cameron's government almost doubled the pay out for grouse moors, not to help out his chums of course. 

 

 https://www.theguardian.com/environment/georgemonbiot/2013/may/22/britain-uplands-farming-subsidies  

The denuded land is interesting .. somewhere on twatter there is a discussion of the attempts to preserve habitats for the Large Blue Butterfly in Devon and Cornwall in the 1930s, the native Large Blue finally died out there in the late 1970s. Part of the problem for the Large Blue in Devon & Cornwall was actually the reduction in grazing by sheep.

[Goober]

2 hours ago, Stubby Pecker said:

In order to receive farming subsidies you don't actually need to produce anything at all. All you need to do is prove that the land is capable to do so i.e. remove all scrub periodically and stop nature doing what its been doing for countless millennia. On denuded land it only takes a very low density of sheep to maintain its largely lifeless state. As for subsidies for upland sheep farming, it simply couldn't exist without them as they would all make a massive loss. The whole thing is a scandal and Cameron's government almost doubled the pay out for grouse moors, not to help out his chums of course. 

 

 https://www.theguardian.com/environment/georgemonbiot/2013/may/22/britain-uplands-farming-subsidies  

Anyway, fuck this shite SP. The sooner heather [Mills] is extinct, the better. 

7-0 to the mighty Canaries last night. The bubbly is in the fridge ready for the now inevitable promotion back to the promised land where they'll be torn a new arsehole every week. 

 

[Eric Cuntman]

Alright. Enough of this sensibly conducted conversation about rural ecology. 

@Dawn Chorus, get back to pretending to know where Templeton Pecker lives.

@Stubby Pecker, get back to telling Pen that she's got a 14 inch donkey-dangler.

@Goober, get back on the bottle and call everyone a cunt.

Thanks.

[Goober]

2 hours ago, Dawn Chorus said:

The denuded land is interesting .. somewhere on twatter there is a discussion of the attempts to preserve habitats for the Large Blue Butterfly in Devon and Cornwall in the 1930s, the native Large Blue finally died out there in the late 1970s. Part of the problem for the Large Blue in Devon & Cornwall was actually the reduction in grazing by sheep.

There are still plenty of denuded wetlands...

On Xhamster.

[Goober]

5 minutes ago, Eric Cuntman said:

Alright. Enough of this sensibly conducted conversation about rural ecology. 

@Dawn Chorus, get back to pretending to know where Templeton Pecker lives.

@Stubby Pecker, get back to telling Pen that she's got a 14 inch donkey-dangler.

@Goober, get back on the bottle and call everyone a cunt.

Thanks.

Cunt.

Hic. 

[Stubby Pecker]

1 hour ago, Eric Cuntman said:

Alright. Enough of this sensibly conducted conversation about rural ecology. 

@Dawn Chorus, get back to pretending to know where Templeton Pecker lives.

@Stubby Pecker, get back to telling Pen that she's he's got a 14 inch donkey-dangler.

@Goober, get back on the bottle and call everyone a cunt.

Thanks.

Yes, it was getting a bit civilized 

Fuck off

[Cuntybaws]

2 hours ago, Goober said:

7-0 to the mighty Canaries last night. The bubbly is in the fridge ready for the now inevitable promotion back to the promised land where they'll be torn a new arsehole every week. 

You can't fault his scoring record, but I'm afraid Pukki just looks too much like a Smurf to stand any chance in the Premier League. He'd be the tallest and best looking player in the Scottish Championship, though.

[camberwell gypsy]

4 hours ago, Dawn Chorus said:

I am not sure about the subsidies for sheep .. I think a lot of the money is being soaked up by tax offsets for supposedly not using the land .. what has happened in some of these places is that cunts buy vast acrerages of land that has actually been little used other than for common grazing and being paid for leaving it exactly as it is and making in some cases several hundred £k per year for doing this. I think that there is one such "non-farmer" doing this near Okehampton on Dartmoor. There is presently also an area of Dartmoor due to be sold by auction which will actually be a nice little earner for the same reason.

There's many landowners who are selling their land to developers, swathes of green land is being built on. So the landowners and developers are trousering millions.

[camberwell gypsy]

2 hours ago, Goober said:

Anyway, fuck this shite SP. The sooner heather [Mills] is extinct, the better. 

7-0 to the mighty Canaries last night. The bubbly is in the fridge ready for the now inevitable promotion back to the promised land where they'll be torn a new arsehole every week. 

 

That's great. Because this time next season the yoyo cunts will be heading back down. But don't worry, because by the same time the following season you'll be celebrating again. 

Mick Channon's a cunt 

[Goober]

58 minutes ago, camberwell gypsy said:

That's great. Because this time next season the yoyo cunts will be heading back down. But don't worry, because by the same time the following season you'll be celebrating again. 

Mick Channon's a cunt 

Channon was still a decent player when at Norwich, even though he was at the arse end of his career. It went downhill after that tho. 

There's always some excitement at the end of every season for Norwich. Beats mid-table mediocrity. 

[camberwell gypsy]

11 minutes ago, Goober said:

Channon was still a decent player when at Norwich, even though he was at the arse end of his career. It went downhill after that tho. 

There's always some excitement at the end of every season for Norwich. Beats mid-table mediocrity. 

True. 

 

[Dyslexic cnut]

9 hours ago, Dawn Chorus said:

If you visit the moorland between Macclesfield and Buxton you will find no human intervention and few trees on the moors. Few trees grow there at the best, Much of Dartmoor is the same. True that the sheep prevent some of the trees from growing but in the past wild populations of goats would have done the same job in those places

We were going to buy a house up on Saddleworth Moor but Mrs Cnut didn’t fancy the idea of bits of kids getting under her feet day and night.

[Penny Farthing]

19 minutes ago, Dyslexic cnut said:

We were going to by a house up on Saddleworth Moor but Mrs Cnut didn’t fancy the idea of bits of kids getting under her feet day and night.

There used to be a very good single doctor GP surgery not too far away in Hyde.

[cuntspotter]

25 minutes ago, Dawn Chorus said:

There used to be a very good single doctor GP surgery not too far away in Hyde.

Ah.. that lovely Dr Shipman.

[Penny Farthing]

3 minutes ago, cuntspotter said:

Ah.. that lovely Dr Shipman.

Young Fred to his friends.

[King Billy]

20 hours ago, Eric Cuntman said:

This is absolutely brilliant if you read it out in Victor Meldrew's voice.

“I don’t belieeeeve it.”