Goober

More like gudgeon, Shirley?

Time to death from onset of symptoms is 18 days give or take, although certainly shorter for the very elderly and infirm. Symptoms take ~5 days to appear after infection. Deaths can take anything up to week to record. So it's not a question of how many have been vaccinated now, but how many were infected almost a month ago. One vaccine dose is definitely less effective than two as well. Data in a month's time will be more telling.

The article in the Grauniad about this (the first Google hit, not something I'd choose to read regularly) stated that "The country [China] has also tightened internal restrictions". That's going to make swabbing uncomfortable.

He's on the beach and slowly dessicating, but there's still a pulse, just about. Unfortunately, he's that fucking stupid he probably doesn't appreciate how soundly he's been thrashed. I've no idea how one comes back from that though. Once he's in his grave and there's 6 ft of soil on him I'm sure the well deserved rewards for ridding the site of that shall be gratefully delivered.

We all have our moments (I know I do) but this was beyond spectacular. Johnny is on Frank's 'boat' many miles from water right now.

If that's making a cunt of myself, I'll continue to do so. However considering your input to the debate I'd suggest that people in glass houses should exercise caution when throwing stones.

Twat.

@Wolfie Let’s get a few things straight. I was not defending China in any respect and particularly not with regard to their human rights abuses nor their animal welfare standards, or rather their complete lack of them. Neither was I defending their ludicrous attempt to spin this of late, including suggesting that it originated elsewhere. As SC said, that’s just politics ex post facto. It has no bearing on what happened at the outset and it’s crystal clear that it originated in China. I never suggested otherwise. Much of what you’ve just thrown out in response simply reflects your own bias but has little bearing on the aspects of this pandemic that were the root of the disagreement, namely the ridiculous finger pointing which, despite your protestations, China had little control over. As I said, it could just as easily have originated anywhere in oriental Asia. There’s nothing wrong with bias as such, but it clouds objectivity, as you have clearly demonstrated. My argument all along was that it is ridiculous in most respects to conflate these issues, but that it’s easily done by people that either can’t or don’t want to understand the nature of epidemics. You are just looking for someone to blame and because of your, perhaps justified, contempt for this country and its leadership they are an easy target to point the finger at. It’s why Trump called it the China flu; it fit his narrative and diverted attention away from his administration’s rather weak efforts to confront it. There was no hissy fit, just realism, balance and objectivity. It doesn’t agree with your biased opinion, but it’s true nonetheless. You came steaming in with both feet and here you are now demonstrating that you don’t understand what that study (which was conducted at Southampton University not the Oxford Vaccine Group) actually presented, perhaps because you couldn’t, didn’t want to, or you read it in a red top. Their work highlights what would have happened if they had locked down earlier or later, but it doesn’t make a case regarding whether it was realistic or not to shut down earlier. No one, not you, me, or anyone else is likely to ever know how soon they realised this was going to be catastrophic, so you’re just straying into the realms of speculation, again because of bias. SC stated this well, he doesn’t trust the Chinese, and that’s fair enough, but it doesn’t enlighten anyone to the truth or constitute evidence of any kind. There’s actually a lot of praise in that research for how soon they did lock down. No country, absolutely none, would shut down a city of 12 million people, or a country of over a billion, as I flippantly alluded too, because someone has an unusual sniffle. Even once they realised it was a coronavirus, they wouldn’t have known how virulent it was and therefore realised what action they should have taken at that time. It takes time to understand such things and once you’ve used that necessary time, it’s too late. Your argument is based on 20/20 hindsight. If such a disease originated here, or France, or Germany the Government's initial actions would be little different. Despite their lack of transparency at the outset, it’s almost certain that once they realised what they were dealing with it was too late already and we’d still be where we are now even if they had locked down immediately. I will concede that China need to make greater efforts to shut down these wet markets, because it is playing with fire. Make no mistake though, even if they were outlawed they would continue anyway. It’s part of their culture; it’s not what’s been forced upon them by their government. It may be disgusting to us, but I’m sure their noses wrinkle at some western practices. Some of the people that use these markets probably wouldn’t countenance eating a turkey twizzler. We’re equally alien to each other. Most annual epidemics/pandemics, including flu originate there, but usually amongst farm workers, not in wet markets. Bird flu and Swine flu were so called because they too were zoonoses. In a comparatively poor country with 1/7 of the world’s population it’s no great surprise. So whilst I did hang on your every word, but actually didn’t piss myself laughing, I find that like the findings of the paper you quoted, 95% of your response could have been prevented if you had actually understood the argument you were jumping into. Finally, next time you want to act the hard man and gob off at me, particularly when your arguments are largely shite, it will come back with interest.

I know, I've been there, I've seen it for myself. I happen to think Russia's belligerence instigated by its belligerent leader to appeal to people domestically is a serious international threat. He's not someone to use kid gloves with.

Please desist from derailing the current derailment.

It's a book about Trump, not a book for Trump, silly.

Drew was a properly funny fucker. Benny was before my time. Whenever I hear mention of him it's in the context of him being a complete fucking mentalist. Rothers on the other hand I know how to get in touch with him. I should try and tempt him back. Strictly Cum Farting XVIII would be interesting.

After a bit of a search, I've realised that nom was posted within a few days of me joining the old site. Can't remember it though, probably because I was only dipping in and out then. Scrub that. That date in August was when the new format site came online after the old one was carpet bombed. I must have joined around 2012 though. You probably know better than me.

Whatever happened to Drew? He was approaching Rev levels in terms of humour.

I don't think the site was ever uncensored. It was rather red in tooth and claw though. I doubt there's many here that would remember precise details now, since there's probably only a dozen or so members, including mods, that predate me still kicking around, (that I'm aware of). I have wondered if it was true or just a CC myth, regardless, it's funny. I'm sure Pen will remember.

I hope she doesn't miss and accidently hit a fox instead. That's be a tragedy for us. The fox too I guess.

If truth be told I suspect they were just random mailshots and that it had nothing to do with anyone here. He was just having a hissy fit, pissing himself and playing the victim, as usual. Frank was the object of his ire though, iirc. He would have benefited from some free Tena Men samples in the post. I don't remember restaurantgate. It may have been before my time.

He had a shit fit and did a flounce when he thought someone from the site was sending junk mail to him including, most famously, a fat boy clothes catalogue (Jacamo, allegedly). He dropped out of sight for the best part of a year after that.

That's fair enough. Everyone is entitled to their opinions. It's unbalanced, improbable opinions stated with absolute conviction as fact that boil my piss. It's very rare for me to ever consider anything as set in stone fact.

I reckon she could make an absolute killing on one of those.

I'm definitely no fan of the way China operates on the global stage. I'm just not entirely comfortable with conflating their international aggression with, what evidences suggests at this time, the random appearance of a virus that's caused a pandemic.

See my response to SC. Ultimately though, yes, they can and do happen without the need for malice or incompetence.

I'll admit that I had similar thoughts about the lab in Wuhan initially and I doubt anyone could discount out of hand the possibility that the virus originated there. However, there is no evidence of this virus having been engineered and definitely none that it was deliberately released. Such actions leave evidence which has not been found. What is possible is that they were studying a naturally occurring virus and poor safety standards let the cat (bat?) out of the bag. That could simply be the actions of a foolhardy individual though. From what is known at the moment, it's far, far more likely that the virus originated naturally in the wet market. To suggest otherwise based on the currently available evidence is just speculation and straying into the realms of conspiracy theory. Are their animal welfare standards appalling? Absolutely. Could they do more to stop such practices? Probably and I've little doubt they'll try harder in future. No one wants this again. However, such practices are cultural through much of oriental Asia and even a government as controlling as China's creates problems for itself when they start interfering with cultural practices that have continued for centuries. China has a massive population problem, with a large proportion living in comparative poverty. They've tried to employ some draconian practices to control their population with limited success. Huge, densely populated cities with, what to us are backward cultural practices and far less than optimal sanitary conditions are melting pots for diseases. In such scenarios it's inevitable that well adapted and highly infectious new viruses crop up from time to time. It's as certain as the sun rising each day. Epidemics happen frequently but often they get little or no attention because most don't affect humans. Think Ash die back or viral haemorrhagic disease in rabbits as examples. Even in human populations they happen frequently, but that's only apparent if thinking beyond our own experience or the time scale of single human lives. Eventually host populations evolve and live with these diseases. This virus doesn't actually mutate particularly quickly compared to the majority. However, all viruses constantly mutate. Most mutations are neutral, some lessen their impact whilst some increase virulence and or lethality. Mutation is entirely random, directionless and happening frequently. Back to the original point of China having inflicted this on the world. This strikes me as laziness and human nature looking for someone to blame. The reality is, sometimes shit just happens. The fact that it happened in China when coupled with their cultural differences, which make them alien to us, means it's easy, and convenient, to point the finger. It could have just as easily started in Thailand or Vietnam or anywhere else. Could they have been more transparent and reacted quicker? Probably, but ultimately its likely that would have made little difference. 20/20 hindsight is great, but when diseases first appear there's just no information on which to base the appropriate level of response. Should cities or countries of millions or billions of people be locked down immediately every time someone gets a slightly unusual sniffle? Did it originate from the lab? It's not impossible, but they are far, far from being the only country in the world that plays with fire in this way. Ultimately, its just bad luck and blaming China for the current ills of the world is just scapegoating based on people's own, entirely natural, prejudice.

Sounds like a conspiracy theory to me.

No hangover, not sure why I would have. Thanks for your concern. Please try to find the time. I'll hang on your every word, before pissing myself laughing due to your ignorance.