WOT, no Brexit plan!!

[Jiggerycock]

2 hours ago, Panzerknacker said:

Some of you are thick as shite..most of you were not given all the facts 

Panzerknacker 

I hope to God that's your final fig leaf protecting the load of old cock you've come out with on this.

Fact - we were told this was the biggest decision we would ever make

Fact - We were told that a vote to Leave meant leaving the single market and all of the EU's offices, instututions, and assorted fol de rols.

Opinion - All politicians lie

Opinion - It's down to a concerned citizen to get themselves as informed as possible about the issues, the future within an expoanding and centralized Eu and outside of it and go with that and their experience of living under the EU to date.

Fact - 17.4 million people voted to Leave in one of the biggest, most heated and yet most engaging democratic debates ever held in the UK

So let's talk about 'Facts' and how 'thick' 17.4 million people are (nb the same arguments were used against the Chartists and the Suffragettes so you'd best have a bit more fucking 'bang' to your argument than some of the weak, pedantic bullshit you've peddled thus far)

[Guest 'eavensabove]

2 minutes ago, Panzerknacker said:

I'd say ya wouldn't have to go back too far to find a dropeen of green in ya eve baby

Panzerknacker 

I've had a pint of Johnny-Jump-Up and a shot of Kilbeggan upon a Currach on Lough Corrib  if that counts? 

[PANZER MURPHY]

4 minutes ago, Jiggerycock said:

I hope to God that's you're final fig leaf protecting the load of old cock you've come out with on this.

Fact - we were told this was the biggest decision we would ever make

Fact - We were told that a vote to Leave meant leaving the single market and all of the EU's offices, instututions, and assorted fol de rols.

Opinion - All politicians lie

Opinion - It's down to a concerned citizen to get themselves as informed as possible about the issues, the future within an expoanding and centralized Eu and outside of it and go with that and their experience of living under the EU to date.

Fact - 17.4 million people voted to Leave in one of the biggest, most heated and yet most engaging democratic debates ever held in the UK

So let's talk about 'Facts' and how 'thick' 17.4 million people are (nb the same arguments were used against the Chartists and the Suffragettes so you'd best have a bit more fucking 'bang' to your argument than some of the weak, pedantic bullshit you've peddled thus far)

Why ya hate the EU so much? 

Panzerknacker 

[Guest 'eavensabove]

5 minutes ago, Panzerknacker said:

Why ya hate the EU so much? 

Panzerknacker 

It's not only EWE that he hates.

[PANZER MURPHY]

2 minutes ago, 'eavensabove said:

It's not only EWE that he hates.

Ya over doin a bit of fishing eve baby?

Panzerknacker 

[Jiggerycock]

5 minutes ago, Panzerknacker said:

Why ya hate the EU so much? 

Panzerknacker 

Fuck me furiously, he's actually shut up and asked a question - he might even be prepared to listen - instead of telling us all how it's going to be!

I still want to Leave because the reasons why I voted that way will only be played out in the long run.

Briefly I believe in small, local and democratic government, a nimble economy, the hard-working and entrepreneurial flair of the British people and the very real and existing democratic deficits inherent in Brussels over unfounded fears like a British government suddenly becoming a dictatorship of 'untrammeled power', which is why I try to focus on the fact there’s still a whole world to be won. Brexit is not an end in itself – it’s an opportunity, if we’re prepared to embrace it.

My views were shaped by my experience as a director of a small business  frozen out of doing business with a major European player in my sector, because bigger  companies have a competitive advantage over me in that they can employ swathes of compliance droids to deal with the unnecessary red-tape bestowed on the market by Brussels.

Also I have read extensively  about, and have an instinctive aversion to, the Coudenhove-Kalergi European ideal. Add in the security implications of Merkel’s insane (non) immigration policy (Schengen or No Schengen) and the unaddressed Greek Debt Crisis ( which we will take a bath on whether we are members of the Euro or not) and there you have it.

You could summarize that lot as ‘doing it for my kids and grandkids’.Let the short-term doom-mongers have their moment and try and claim some mandate to Remain.  I knew they would.

Look at the ballot paper and the question that was actually asked (there's a 'fact' for you) and that is what I voted for and I refuse to be told what it was I thought I was voting for. If anyone (on either side) claims they did not know what they were voting for – tough. There is no excuse to not be well-informed about your vote in the Internet age where all information is two clicks away. There is no excuse for treating politicians like rock stars and following what they say blindly.

I like to think I got myself as informed as I could, looked at my own experiences and hopes and made my best choice based on that.

I respect anyone who disagrees with me, but I also happen to think they should allow the winners – and I’m sorry but it is as black and white as that – to have a stab at implementing a Brexit (I don’t recognise ‘Hard’ and ‘Soft’) free from the whitterings of what I see as people who would rather be right than happy….people who (like Trump with Obamacare), would like our country to fail in order to prove a political position they have taken, rather than succeed for all of us.

FWIW I don't hate the EU. I think it needs reform and it's got problems coming that make Brexit look like a sore thumb. And I don't hate any country (f'rinstance, I love coming racing in Ireland and Punchestown and Galway are two of the highlights of my year). I'd like it if my country got on with implementing what it voted for but that's not going to happen now and we have to work from where we are.

[PANZER MURPHY]

2 minutes ago, Jiggerycock said:

Fuck me furiously, he's actually shut up and asked a question - he might even be prepared to listen - instead of telling us all how it's going to be!

I still want to Leave because the reasons why I voted that way will only be played out in the long run.

Briefly I believe in small, local and democratic government, a nimble economy, the hard-working and entrepreneurial flair of the British people and the very real and existing democratic deficits inherent in Brussels over unfounded fears like a British government suddenly becoming a dictatorship of 'untrammeled power', which is why I try to focus on the fact there’s still a whole world to be won. Brexit is not an end in itself – it’s an opportunity, if we’re prepared to embrace it.

My views were shaped by my experience as a director of a small business  frozen out of doing business with a major European player in my sector, because bigger  companies have a competitive advantage over me in that they can employ swathes of compliance droids to deal with the unnecessary red-tape bestowed on the market by Brussels.

Also I have read extensively  about, and have an instinctive aversion to, the Coudenhove-Kalergi European ideal. Add in the security implications of Merkel’s insane (non) immigration policy (Schengen or No Schengen) and the unaddressed Greek Debt Crisis ( which we will take a bath on whether we are members of the Euro or not) and there you have it.

You could summarize that lot as ‘doing it for my kids and grandkids’.Let the short-term doom-mongers have their moment and try and claim some mandate to Remain.  I knew they would.

Look at the ballot paper and the question that was actually asked (there's a 'fact' for you) and that is what I voted for and I refuse to be told what it was I thought I was voting for. If anyone (on either side) claims they did not know what they were voting for – tough. There is no excuse to not be well-informed about your vote in the Internet age where all information is two clicks away. There is no excuse for treating politicians like rock stars and following what they say blindly.

I like to think I got myself as informed as I could, looked at my own experiences and hopes and made my best choice based on that.

I respect anyone who disagrees with me, but I also happen to think they should allow the winners – and I’m sorry but it is as black and white as that – to have a stab at implementing a Brexit (I don’t recognise ‘Hard’ and ‘Soft’) free from the whitterings of what I see as people who would rather be right than happy….people who (like Trump with Obamacare), would like our country to fail in order to prove a political position they have taken, rather than succeed for all of us.

FWIW I don't hate the EU. I think it needs reform and it's got problems coming that make Brexit look like a sore thumb. And I don't hate any country (f'rinstance, I love coming racing in Ireland and Punchestown and Galway are two of the highlights of my year). I'd like it if my country got on with implementing what it voted for but that's not going to happen now and we have to work from where we are.

Well I'll ask you the same question I asked the roops. ..what would the leaders of the super economic powers of China and India ask of ya in exchange for a trade deal..knowing y'all need one ..I know what I'd ask for 

Panzerknacker 

[Jiggerycock]

15 minutes ago, Panzerknacker said:

Well I'll ask you the same question I asked the roops. ..what would the leaders of the super economic powers of China and India ask of ya in exchange for a trade deal..knowing y'all need one ..I know what I'd ask for 

Panzerknacker 

You tell me - you've got all the answers, the crystal ball, a mouth the size of the Liffey and completely ignored what I wrote above. I'm just as thick as shite, apparently

Since we never even tried and it's too late now it's a total fucking irrelevancy.

 

[The Beast]

Now Boris cunt has resigned. I reckon he must have enough signatures to get a vote of no confidence in Mrs may.

This civil war has been going on for over 25 years in the Tory party. 

I just want us cunts out of this dirty stinking club. Seems very unlikely it will happen.

[Guest 'eavensabove]

14 minutes ago, Panzerknacker said:

Ya over doin a bit of fishing eve baby?

Panzerknacker 

Fishing, now there's an enjoyable pastime, hook line & sinker, and there's some pretty decent waters within the EU to boot. 

[Guest 'eavensabove]

1 minute ago, The Beast said:

Now Boris cunt has resigned. I reckon he must have enough signatures to get a vote of no confidence in Mrs may.

This civil war has been going on for over 25 years in the Tory party. 

I just want us cunts out of this dirty stinking club. Seems very unlikely it will happen.

Couldn't agree more.  I'd wager she'll be out this side of Christmas, but what cunt will replace her is another thing.  The Tory worms will come out from the wood and we'll all be fucked again.  They literally say & do anything to remain in power as is evident.  

[PANZER MURPHY]

7 minutes ago, Jiggerycock said:

You tell me - you've got all the answers, the crystal ball, a mouth the size of the Liffey and completely ignored what I wrote above

Since we never even tried and it's too late now it's a total fucking irrelevancy.

 

I read it...in return for trade id demand free movement of goods.. services and people tween China n India n great Britain. .do wonders for your manufacturing Base.... probably ..millions of Indians n Chinese instead of thousands of poles. .win win eh

Panzerknacker 

[Mrs Roops]

Well now, just watched Mrs May's statement to the House of Commons...quite illuminating. Not seeing sight of the small print she's made quite a good presentation but as ever the devil is in the detail. Several observations: 1/ Northern Ireland is still a massive fly in the ointment 2/ Industry in general and exporters in particular need to see sight of the "Book of Rules" pronto, now, immediately. 3/ Mrs May has slipped in the need of preparing for a "no deal" scenario into the speech - this was received almost without comment by the House 4/ She concluded that the EU will have difficulty in accepting the deal 5/ Jeremy Corbyn's reply consisting mainly of 6th form debating society soundbites only served to remind why he is an utterly useless Leader of Her Majesty's Opposition let alone as a Prime Minister in waiting.

[Guest 'eavensabove]

2 minutes ago, Panzerknacker said:

I read it...in return for trade id demand free movement of goods.. services and people tween China n India n great Britain. .do wonders for your manufacturing Base.... probably ..millions of Indians n Chinese instead of thousands of poles. .win win eh

Panzerknacker 

Much of our goods already flow in from India and China, albeit not currently for free.  We certainly don't need more of their people though, and if we reopened the mines, pits, docks and fishing industries,  the Northerners wouldn't be bleeding us dry either. Give those cunts something to keep them happy, build a few prefabs, and Britain will be Great again,  just how it was before Ted Heath sold our souls down the European route.  The 3 day week?   Those were the days that we should all be proud of and seeking to reintroduce. .   

[Jiggerycock]

14 minutes ago, Panzerknacker said:

I read it...in return for trade id demand free movement of goods.. services and people tween China n India n great Britain. .do wonders for your manufacturing Base.... probably ..millions of Indians n Chinese instead of thousands of poles. .win win eh

Panzerknacker 

I agree the object should be to win the global war for talent. Limits should be placed on unskilled labour, as is common in most countries, but skilled workers should be welcomed with open arms. Our world-class universities (we have six in the global top 30 while no other EU country has any) should be allowed to recruit as many overseas students as they can manage. Those who graduate with a proper degree should be welcome to stay for a further five years. And, if they settle down, invited to apply for full citizenship. There ought to be hundreds of state-funded scholarships, offered globally, to underline Britain’s intent about strengthening its wider networks. There need be no delay in removing students from the immigration quotas.

[PANZER MURPHY]

Just now, Jiggerycock said:

I agree the object should be to win the global war for talent. Limits should be placed on unskilled labour, as is common in most countries, but skilled workers should be welcomed with open arms. Our world-class universities (we have six in the global top 30 while no other EU country has any) should be allowed to recruit as many overseas students as they can manage. Those who graduate with a proper degree should be welcome to stay for a further five years. And, if they settle down, invited to apply for full citizenship. There ought to be hundreds of state-funded scholarships, offered globally, to underline Britain’s intent about strengthening its wider networks. There need be no delay in removing students from the immigration quotas.

Cherry pickin cunt

Panzerknacker 

[Mrs Roops]

1 hour ago, Panzerknacker said:

Why ya hate the EU so much? 

Panzerknacker 

Panzy, if you're asking that now, then clearly all previous discourse on the EU debate has gone in one ear and straight out the other...

2 hours ago, Panzerknacker said:

What do you think the emerging supereconomic powers of China and India will ask for in return for trade deals?..I know what I'd ask for because I know ya need them

Panzerknacker 

What I think is that the UK will negotiate a deal tailored to the needs of the country and not be part of the diverse requirements of 27 other nations each with their own protectionist agenda. Moreover, such a deal can be concluded in the fraction of the time taken by the EU for the same reason.

[PANZER MURPHY]

14 minutes ago, Mrs Roops said:

Panzy, if you're asking that now, then clearly all previous discourse on the EU debate has gone in one ear and straight out the other...

What I think is that the UK will negotiate a deal tailored to the needs of the country and not be part of the diverse requirements of 27 other nations each with their own protectionist agenda. Moreover, such a deal can be concluded in the fraction of the time taken by the EU for the same reason.

Always knew ya were a genius roops baby...even if ya did own a motorbike

Panzerknacker 

[Decimus]

1 hour ago, Mrs Roops said:

Right from the outset of the pre-referendum Brexit debate, leaders of the Remain camp made it clear (as a "project fear" argument for remaining) that voting "out would mean leaving the single market and customs union. Now the very same people are calling for another referendum (in all but name) on the basis that no-one realised the ramification of voting out!

 

1 hour ago, Jiggerycock said:

It's already decided and it's not a return to the good old bad old days.

See my previous point

Why would the EU let us back on anything but the most punitive of terms (i.e the ones used for new member state applicants? They have shown no willingness to consider anything bespoke in Brexit negotiations - why would they do so in any (putative) Bre-entry negotiations?

Let's be clear, I'm not advocating another referendum. The decision has been made, and we should, and will leave.

But I'd like a say on the terms of our withdrawl. The people have spoken, their will to leave is known, but those people, along with those who voted to remain, deserve a say in any terms set out by the government. 

Are you both saying that you would rather our economic and political future be solely left in the hands of a tiny group of Tory politicians? Or do you want a say on our continuing (but separate) relationship with Europe?

[PANZER MURPHY]

Ireland has long suffered because our elected gobshites put idealism above prudence. ..I'm glad to see your gang are no different 

Panzerknacker 

[Mrs Roops]

2 minutes ago, Decimus said:

 

Let's be clear, I'm not advocating another referendum. The decision has been made, and we should, and will leave.

But I'd like a say on the terms of our withdrawl. The people have spoken, their will to leave is known, but those people, along with those who voted to remain, deserve a say in any terms set out by the government. 

Are you both saying that you would rather our economic and political future be solely left in the hands of a tiny group of Tory politicians? Or do you want a say on our continuing (but separate) relationship with Europe?

Yes, but the "terms of our withdrawal" as advocated by the Remain-leaning politicos and interlopers always seem to include staying within the Single Market & Customs Union.

[PANZER MURPHY]

2 minutes ago, Mrs Roops said:

Yes, but the "terms of our withdrawal" as advocated by the Remain-leaning politicos and interlopers always seem to include staying within the Single Market & Customs Union.

Unless ya sort the north yer still in it

Panzerknacker 

[Mrs Roops]

28 minutes ago, Mrs Roops said:

Well now, just watched Mrs May's statement to the House of Commons...quite illuminating. Not seeing sight of the small print she's made quite a good presentation but as ever the devil is in the detail. Several observations: 1/ Northern Ireland is still a massive fly in the ointment 2/ Industry in general and exporters in particular need to see sight of the "Book of Rules" pronto, now, immediately. 3/ Mrs May has slipped in the need of preparing for a "no deal" scenario into the speech - this was received almost without comment by the House 4/ She concluded that the EU will have difficulty in accepting the deal 5/ Jeremy Corbin's reply consisting mainly of 6th form debating society soundbites only served to remind why he is an utterly useless Leader of Her Majesty's Opposition let alone as a Prime Minister in waiting.

I have to say, I was expecting Mrs May to be slaughtered by the House but fair do's, she doing quite well....so far. I would love to be a fly on the wall at tonight's 1922 Committee meeting.

[Jiggerycock]

2 minutes ago, Mrs Roops said:

Yes, but the "terms of our withdrawal" as advocated by the Remain-leaning politicos and interlopers always seem to include staying within the Single Market & Customs Union.

.....and the 'National group-think' aided by a largely compliant media, seems to be all about  a choice between whatever fudge is negotiated and a return to pre-2016 (which as I've said, isn't on the EU's agenda).

I'd be well up for a third referendum if there was an option for 'This is not what we voted for at all - Leave properly and start negotiating over the heads of EU apparatchiks directly with Heads of Government and captains of industry affected by the potential loss of trade with Britain. Oh and forget this racist crap that apparently Leaving has turned int. Let's fight for talent on a global basis, oh and whilst we're about extending democracy, let's get rid of the House of Lords too'

Not going to happen is it - you'd never fit all that on the ballot paper - and the Remainers would still argue we didn't know what we were voting for.

[Wolfie]

1 hour ago, Panzerknacker said:

Always knew ya were a genius roops baby...even if ya did own a motorbike

Panzerknacker 

What a stupid and pointless retort. As a riled and bitter Irish Anglophobe, you keep arguing for the sake of arguing, trying in vain to annoy those of a predominantly British website.

It's little wonder you're both poor and single, occasionally striking lucky with some hapless bag whose ability to ovulate disappeared around the same time Ireland last qualified for a World Cup finals.

Time and again you attempt to scold the UK, most recently by creating an utterly shit, jealousy-borne nomination to ridicule England's recent football achievements.

Kill yourself.