Shamina Begum

[Guest 'eavensabove]

6 hours ago, Last Cunt Standing said:

I hope you don’t mean me. 

Well, I did, but I meant nothing by it. 

[Guest 'eavensabove]

1 hour ago, Crab said:

The case is watertight. She can legally be excluded and stripped if she is eligible to apply for citizenship elsewhere. Bangladeshi law operates the principle for its diaspora (like Israel and Ireland) which is probably due to its history since partition. That means she is eligible under Bangladeshi to apply for their citizenship by descent. So if she needs any help filling in the form the lazy cunt I'll send her a Morrisons back to school kit. PUT THE CUNT BACK WHERE SHE BELONGS IN A MUSLIM COUNTRY. 

just like she was in Syria. 

[Cuntybaws]

2 hours ago, The Bishop said:

I see that Shamima says that she is willing to change .. Yes that the spirit, just throw off that pervy nuns outfit have a bath and and then pop down to Primark or New Look.

She also says of Bangladesh, "I don't have anything there, another language, I have never even seen the place, I don't know why people are offering that to me."

Which is rich, coming from the cunt who went to Syria without speaking the language, and who had never been there before and didn't know anyone there.

[cuntspotter]

2 minutes ago, Cuntybaws said:

She also says of Bangladesh, "I don't have anything there, another language, I have never even seen the place, I don't know why people are offering that to me."

Which is rich, coming from the cunt who went to Syria without speaking the language, and who had never been there before and didn't know anyone there.

I know...I Know.... act in fucking haste...repent at leisure.

[Guest 'eavensabove]

12 minutes ago, cuntspotter said:

Well, it is hard to express oneself fully on a sight like this, but. I’ll have a go. 

1. I am not apologising for her or seeking to water down appropriate legal redress.

2. I use the word “If” because there is a difference in being a murderer and witnessing murder. Let’s hear the case against her...I don’t know exactly what it entails...neither does anyone here.

3. You say ...”sympathy for Begum......points to a complete unanchoring of sections of the opinion-forming set from any sense of morality”. I suggest that the contrary is the case. For all the reasons I have previously suggested. I am not a middle class chatterer but I am a citizen of this country who wants to see the law upheld for everybody. My morality wants to see justice...yours wants to see revenge.

4. This is about rock solid justice ...not viscerally motivated revenge on a darkie Muslim girl (15, sex trafficked from a conservative radicalised Moslem family to be a comfort woman to is insurgents ) who, a swathe of society are desperate to claim belongs in Bangladesh.

5. The legal case is not watertight. I think the home Sec has been badly advised. ... and so do people who are paid to know about such things. I think he is pandering to the daily mail readership again. 

Aaaaaaand lastly.... She was, at fifteen, dull, impressionable, low hanging fruit, easily groomed and seduced away from a Society that she had been functionally kept apart from . All this anger now aimed at her, which I understand and is not entirely misplaced, is amplified  by the fact that she is of Asian origin. If it were a white girl from the end of the street, I guarantee it would be viewed with less intensity.

She is part of the collateral damage of the world that our ludicrous home and foreign policies over the last fifty years have made. What we need are proper strategies for dealing with people like her because I don’t think she is going to be the last we see. Yes, and of course she was a kid and really, still is... watching prisoners being brought back to be tortured, raped, incinerated, beheaded, seeing deserters or people wanting to leave being disposed of similarly. Having two infants die of neglect and deprivation.

But .....if people can’t get their heads around this for themselves then I’m not going to persuade the otherwise. It’s a good job that the law is out of the hands of the general public otherwise barbarism would prevail. We are better than IS because we have the capacity to think beyond mindless cruelty ...if only the daily mail readers could understand it.

 

 

 

In essence I agree. But, surely it would have been a good idea for the government to have stepped-in at the time when this girl (and others like her, past or present) went missing at aged 15?  Where were the press releases and all of the fuss before she got to Syria? That these girls bypass border controls also needs to be addressed.  Surely, her school, her parents and some of her friends would have reported Bigun missing, and that's when this current situation could have been avoided, along with any others. 

[Guest 'eavensabove]

8 minutes ago, Cuntybaws said:

She also says of Bangladesh, "I don't have anything there, another language, I have never even seen the place, I don't know why people are offering that to me."

Which is rich, coming from the cunt who went to Syria without speaking the language, and who had never been there before and didn't know anyone there.

I don't know anybody in Birmingham, nor can I speak their lingo, but are you suggesting that I cannot come home again to Fyfe?

[Cuntybaws]

I must say, I'm enjoying the civilsed interplay between @Jiggerycock and @cuntspotter. I find my heart agreeing with Spotto, but my head agreeing with Jigs, which is strangely the opposite of how I thought it would go.

Much comes down to the philosophical view of the rights of the individual versus classic Utilitarianism (Mr Spock's "The needs of the many..." for the Philistines among you.) I personally think there are better and more productive uses for our time, energy and money than pandering to the individual cases like Begum's. Similarly, I'd rather see money being prioritised in the NHS to staffing the wards and tackling shit like cancer, rather than transgender surgery. I'm not saying that it's wrong, per se, just that it's of lesser relative importance given finite resources.

[cuntspotter]

6 minutes ago, 'eavensabove said:

In essence I agree. But, surely it would have been a good idea for the government to have stepped-in at the time when this girl (and others like her, past or present) went missing at aged 15?  Where were the press releases and all of the fuss before she got to Syria? That these girls bypass border controls also needs to be addressed.  Surely, her school, her parents and some of her friends would have reported Bigun missing, and that's when this current situation could have been avoided, along with any others. 

Bang on the money. There are a stack of iffy things that need looking at. Chucking her to the four winds will just leave them unanswered. I think her family need Looking at and that fucking school sounds very dodgy. Our border controls are fucking shit.

[Decimus]

1 hour ago, The Bishop said:

I like your style and the cut of your jib on this. Using this principle both @Decimus and @Last Cunt Standing can have their citizenship revoked and fucked off to Ireland pronto.

Poor old @Last Cunt Standing dragged unnecessarily into two posts on the same nom without being guilty of anything. It's @Couldn't give a shit you're thinking about, you senile old cunt.

[Mrs Roops]

24 minutes ago, 'eavensabove said:

In essence I agree. But, surely it would have been a good idea for the government to have stepped-in at the time when this girl (and others like her, past or present) went missing at aged 15?  Where were the press releases and all of the fuss before she got to Syria? That these girls bypass border controls also needs to be addressed.  Surely, her school, her parents and some of her friends would have reported Bigun missing, and that's when this current situation could have been avoided, along with any others. 

There was a major hue and cry when the three school girls went missing, at the time it was headline news in both the print and TV media with police appeals, APB to air, rail and sea ports in the UK and abroad. I believe parents (Including Mr Begum Snr) went to Turkey hoping to intercept the girls before they reached ISIL.

[Penny Farthing]

35 minutes ago, Cuntybaws said:

She also says of Bangladesh, "I don't have anything there, another language, I have never even seen the place, I don't know why people are offering that to me."

Which is rich, coming from the cunt who went to Syria without speaking the language, and who had never been there before and didn't know anyone there.

Valid to a point but this is at best a naive and rather simple minded teenager.

[Penny Farthing]

9 minutes ago, Mrs Roops said:

There was a major hue and cry when the three school girls went missing, at the time it was headline news in both the print and TV media with police appeals, APB to air, rail and sea ports in the UK and abroad. I believe parents (Including Mr Begum Snr) went to Turkey hoping to intercept the girls before they reached ISIL.

Such was the hue and cry that even I remember it .. I also remember a senior police officer at the time saying that they were victims rather than offenders and that should they be located at some they should be brought back to the UK.

[Jiggerycock]

3 minutes ago, The Bishop said:

Valid to a point but this is at best a naive and rather simple minded teenager.

Really?

Groomed? She actively sought out Isis!

 A victim? She was a grade-A student who meticulously planned and executed her escape to the Islamic State’s deranged caliphate.

A child? She’s 19 now and she still isn’t that bothered by the removal of people’s heads or the massacre of British citizens.

Strikingly, though, she is a dab hand at the cult of victimhood. People should show me sympathy for what I’ve been through, she says. My jaunt with Isis has made me stronger, she insists, as if she had merely been on a gap year or a reality TV show or something. She is cleverly exploiting a culture that she knows full well exists in modern Britain: a culture of reluctance when it comes to criticising hardcore Islamists too harshly and a tendency to feel a cloying, racially-tinged pity for any Muslim who falls in with ‘bad’ people.

Begum is tapping into and seeking to utilise Corbyn and his likes caginess about condemning Islamic extremism, and this is likely to reap benefits for her.

[Jiggerycock]

27 minutes ago, Cuntybaws said:

I must say, I'm enjoying the civilsed interplay between @Jiggerycock and @cuntspotter. I find my heart agreeing with Spotto, but my head agreeing with Jigs, which is strangely the opposite of how I thought it would go.

Much comes down to the philosophical view of the rights of the individual versus classic Utilitarianism (Mr Spock's "The needs of the many..." for the Philistines among you.) I personally think there are better and more productive uses for our time, energy and money than pandering to the individual cases like Begum's. Similarly, I'd rather see money being prioritised in the NHS to staffing the wards and tackling shit like cancer, rather than transgender surgery. I'm not saying that it's wrong, per se, just that it's of lesser relative importance given finite resources.

Goes against the grain more than somewhat doesn't it?

Would it help if I reset things and called Frank a cunt. 

I know how much folks on here fear change

[Penny Farthing]

14 minutes ago, Jiggerycock said:

Really?

Groomed? She actively sought out Isis!

 A victim? She was a grade-A student who meticulously planned and executed her escape to the Islamic State’s deranged caliphate.

A child? She’s 19 now and she still isn’t that bothered by the removal of people’s heads or the massacre of British citizens.

Strikingly, though, she is a dab hand at the cult of victimhood. People should show me sympathy for what I’ve been through, she says. My jaunt with Isis has made me stronger, she insists, as if she had merely been on a gap year or a reality TV show or something. She is cleverly exploiting a culture that she knows full well exists in modern Britain: a culture of reluctance when it comes to criticising hardcore Islamists too harshly and a tendency to feel a cloying, racially-tinged pity for any Muslim who falls in with ‘bad’ people.

Begum is tapping into and seeking to utilise Corbyn and his likes caginess about condemning Islamic extremism, and this is likely to reap benefits for her.

Highly intelligent people are often very naive, also much of the time having an excellent memory is mistaken for intelligence. The real issue is that her reasoning processes seem to be defective. I am not about bringing her back and allowing her to slip into a quiet life but about her coming back to explain her reasoning and to try to justify her actions and attitude.

[Decimus]

6 minutes ago, The Bishop said:

much the time having an excellent memory is mistaken for intelligence. 

Bawsey, if this isn't fighting talk, I don't know what is.

[Penny Farthing]

Just now, Decimus said:

Bawsey, if this isn't fighting talk, I don't know what is.

Shit Stirrer.

[Jiggerycock]

4 minutes ago, The Bishop said:

Highly intelligent people are often very naive, also much the time having an excellent memory is mistaken for intelligence. The real issue is that her reasoning processes seem to be defective. I am not about bringing her back and allowing her to slip into a quiet life but about her coming back to explain her reasoning and to try to justify her actions and attitude.

You're right of course. I know plenty of 'intelligent idiots'.

Unfortunately the outcome of their actions is a regrettable tattoo or a botched boob job / cock ring.

It takes a spectacular brand of naivety though  to actively seek out a banned terrorist organisation, investigate and execute a travel plan across several countries opposed to what you are doing and ignore the blandishments of your friends, family and the attention of international mass-media to achieve your goal of pallying up with them.

Very little in the way of naivety now of course, in playing a seemingly compliant BBC like a computer game, to put across her 'poor little teenage mum done wrong by' schtik

[Penny Farthing]

32 minutes ago, Jiggerycock said:

You're right of course. I know plenty of 'intelligent idiots'.

Unfortunately the outcome of their actions is a regrettable tattoo or a botched boob job / cock ring.

It takes a spectacular brand of naivety though  to actively seek out a banned terrorist organisation, investigate and execute a travel plan across several countries opposed to what you are doing and ignore the blandishments of your friends, family and the attention of international mass-media to achieve your goal of pallying up with them.

Very little in the way of naivety now of course, in playing a seemingly compliant BBC like a computer game, to put across her 'poor little teenage mum done wrong by' schtik

You jump on the Corbyn battering bandwagon but this fear of challenging Islam affects most mainstream parties. I for one would take religious completely out of education, cease religious education within schools and withdraw official recognition of religious qualifications. Part of schooling would be to create a mindset that challenges all religious convictions and to create an understanding that modern society has come about because people dared to challenge religious beliefs.

[Penny Farthing]

20 minutes ago, Decimus said:

Bawsey, if this isn't fighting talk, I don't know what is.

To be honest Decs, I think that @Cuntybaws has lost some of his fire.

[Jiggerycock]

10 minutes ago, The Bishop said:

You jump on the Corbyn battering bandwagon but this fear of challenging Islam affects most mainstream parties. I for one would take religious completely out of education, cease religious education within schools and withdraw official recognition of religious qualifications. Part of schooling would be to create a mindset that challenges all religious and to create an understanding that modern society has come about because people dared to challenge religious beliefs.

Agreed.

Fancy a pint?

[Guest Crab]

2 hours ago, The Bishop said:

I like your style and the cut of your jib on this. Using this principle both @Decimus and @Last Cunt Standing can have their citizenship revoked and fucked off to Ireland pronto.

There is no principle in law or international relations. Might is right. Happily most of the time most of the people are on the right sude of the might. Explain why any Nazi useful to the weapons programme in the UK or USA was catapulted into a confy postwar existence. The Begum is the case in reverse. She is useful to make an example of. 

3 hours ago, Jiggerycock said:

Maybe.

My point was more to do with the relative sympathy show to these groups to date, by hand-wringers, when compared with that given to Ms. Begum in the last 24 hours (after her tone changed noticeably in her latest PR stunt - I'm sorry, I mean BBC interview - yesterday)

The self fellating exercise of showing the world we are "better" than them is codswallop code for sweep it under the carpet. Especially when the carpet is no way near the white rich privileged middle class in this country benefiting from the lowest personal taxation in twenty years. Let Dulwich College take in her son as a boarder when he gets old enough. Let Chalfont St Giles out her up in a two bedroomed flat. Let Oxbridge sponser him a the Dragon School. 

Fuck the two faced hypocrisy and false values. 

[Guest Crab]

2 hours ago, cuntspotter said:

Well, it is hard to express oneself fully on a sight like this, but. I’ll have a go. 

1. I am not apologising for her or seeking to water down appropriate legal redress.

2. I use the word “If” because there is a difference in being a murderer and witnessing murder. Let’s hear the case against her...I don’t know exactly what it entails...neither does anyone here.

3. You say ...”sympathy for Begum......points to a complete unanchoring of sections of the opinion-forming set from any sense of morality”. I suggest that the contrary is the case. For all the reasons I have previously suggested. I am not a middle class chatterer but I am a citizen of this country who wants to see the law upheld for everybody. My morality wants to see justice...yours wants to see revenge.

4. This is about rock solid justice ...not viscerally motivated revenge on a darkie Muslim girl (15, sex trafficked from a conservative radicalised Moslem family to be a comfort woman to is insurgents ) who, a swathe of society are desperate to claim belongs in Bangladesh.

5. The legal case is not watertight. I think the home Sec has been badly advised. ... and so do people who are paid to know about such things. I think he is pandering to the daily mail readership again. 

Aaaaaaand lastly.... She was, at fifteen, dull, impressionable, low hanging fruit, easily groomed and seduced away from a Society that she had been functionally kept apart from . All this anger now aimed at her, which I understand and is not entirely misplaced, is amplified  by the fact that she is of Asian origin. If it were a white girl from the end of the street, I guarantee it would be viewed with less intensity.

She is part of the collateral damage of the world that our ludicrous home and foreign policies over the last fifty years have made. What we need are proper strategies for dealing with people like her because I don’t think she is going to be the last we see. Yes, and of course she was a kid and really, still is... watching prisoners being brought back to be tortured, raped, incinerated, beheaded, seeing deserters or people wanting to leave being disposed of similarly. Having two infants die of neglect and deprivation.

But .....if people can’t get their heads around this for themselves then I’m not going to persuade the otherwise. It’s a good job that the law is out of the hands of the general public otherwise barbarism would prevail. We are better than IS because we have the capacity to think beyond mindless cruelty ...if only the daily mail readers could understand it.

 

 

 

I'm with Jiggerycock on this. As you need a whole chapter to justify your views it's clearly dissembling. 

[Guest Crab]

1 hour ago, Jiggerycock said:

Really?

Groomed? She actively sought out Isis!

 A victim? She was a grade-A student who meticulously planned and executed her escape to the Islamic State’s deranged caliphate.

A child? She’s 19 now and she still isn’t that bothered by the removal of people’s heads or the massacre of British citizens.

Strikingly, though, she is a dab hand at the cult of victimhood. People should show me sympathy for what I’ve been through, she says. My jaunt with Isis has made me stronger, she insists, as if she had merely been on a gap year or a reality TV show or something. She is cleverly exploiting a culture that she knows full well exists in modern Britain: a culture of reluctance when it comes to criticising hardcore Islamists too harshly and a tendency to feel a cloying, racially-tinged pity for any Muslim who falls in with ‘bad’ people.

Begum is tapping into and seeking to utilise Corbyn and his likes caginess about condemning Islamic extremism, and this is likely to reap benefits for her.

Corbyn hates the EU yet loves terrorist muslims. No no no. Unacceptable - this lot simply are losing ground with their own supporters. As fir the "chattering clas" you mention. Superficially the media is feeding off this which is to be expected. 

Beneath that there is the whole issue of the white middle class privileged elite and their ethnic fellow travellers Like Baroness Amos, Baroness Chakrabarti, Bonnie Greer ad nauseum (you can throw in working class phonies like Will Self) who reinforce the patronising imperialistic class system in this country. The BBC our traditional journalism and institutional life is dominated by this clique which amounts to a form of colonial occupation on behalf of the global super wealthy capitalists. 

[cuntspotter]

11 minutes ago, Crab said:

I'm with Jiggerycock on this. As you need a whole chapter to justify your views it's clearly dissembling. 

You can’t read....can you?